1.01 - Hot Snow

[Frankymole]

I mean that Robert James is NOT MENTIONED AT ALL in the paperwork and I think Dave Rogers made a guess many years ago that was plain wrong (after all, his plot outlines for thes first two episodes were quite inaccurate).

But Robert James was contracted for the first episode (and Morgan wasn't).... confusing...

Really? Is there paperwork for that? I don't have it in my archive.

Isn't Robert James credited in the TV Times cast listing for Hot Snow? I thought he was. Do you have that?

[dissolute]

But Robert James was contracted for the first episode (and Morgan wasn't).... confusing...

Really? Is there paperwork for that? I don't have it in my archive.

Isn't Robert James credited in the TV Times cast listing for Hot Snow? I thought he was. Do you have that?

No, he is not listed in the TV Times listing. This is why I think it's all a big mistake. I'm going to extract the bits where we hear the Big Man speak and compare his voice to our suspects.

[dissolute]

Hmmm, after listening to it again and comparing with Charles and Robert I would say it's neither of them and is in fact Philip Stone playing an extra role. That would certainly have made filming easier and reduced production costs. There's no way it's Robert James' voice and it doesn't sound much like Charles Morgan. On a hunch, I rolled back to Dr Tredding's scenes and they seem a pretty good match, bad cockney accent when being the Big Man notwithstanding. I checked Alister Williamson in an episode of Adam Adamant and it might just be him but I still think Stone is most likely.

Philip does a voice-over narration at the beginning of Brought to Book, recapping Hot Snow, so it's the sort of thing he does. Plus, the Big Man's hands do look like Philip's and they certainly are NOT Robert James' boney hands.

[Frankymole]

That's brilliant. I'd love it to be Philip Stone, I really enjoy him as an actor. His "Budgie" episode is stunning, perhaps the best in a great series.

The speculation in the Hayes/McGinlay books that "The Big Man" was meant to be a recurring arch-enemy (as per Adam Adamant's "The Face" etc) - and the fact he gets away un-Avenged, is valid I think. The terrible time pressures of the first half of series 1 probably precluded developing that idea. But it would've been magnificent for the Avengers to have someone to "Venge" against

[denis rigg]

Hmmm, after listening to it again and comparing with Charles and Robert I would say it's neither of them and is in fact Philip Stone playing an extra role. That would certainly have made filming easier and reduced production costs. There's no way it's Robert James' voice and it doesn't sound much like Charles Morgan. On a hunch, I rolled back to Dr Tredding's scenes and they seem a pretty good match, bad cockney accent when being the Big Man notwithstanding. I checked Alister Williamson in an episode of Adam Adamant and it might just be him but I still think Stone is most likely.

Philip does a voice-over narration at the beginning of Brought to Book, recapping Hot Snow, so it's the sort of thing he does. Plus, the Big Man's hands do look like Philip's and they certainly are NOT Robert James' boney hands.

Excellent analysis, Piers. I think you're right - Philip Stone should have done the voice in Hot Snow, and there really is no evidence that Robert James was in the first episode. This seems to be a mistake from the point that Dave Rogers believed that the first two episodes were completely interconnected like one film and decided that many of the characters should be in both episodes, which of course was only theory.

[dissolute]

That's brilliant. I'd love it to be Philip Stone, I really enjoy him as an actor. His "Budgie" episode is stunning, perhaps the best in a great series.

The speculation in the Hayes/McGinlay books that "The Big Man" was meant to be a recurring arch-enemy (as per Adam Adamant's "The Face" etc) - and the fact he gets away un-Avenged, is valid I think. The terrible time pressures of the first half of series 1 probably precluded developing that idea. But it would've been magnificent for the Avengers to have someone to "Venge" against

I agree. I just finished writing up "Square Root of Evil" and that also has a shadowy boss who only mentioned by other characters, and the episode ends with Steed hoping to catch him when they replace the gang with his own mob that night.
That might have been a vestige of an earlier writers' direction to have an ongoing unknown enemy or it might be another (the last?) example of the ongoing enemy actually being in place, three episodes in a row.

We know the enemy never appears again in the episodes that still exist and the plots of the other lost episodes don't seem to mention one so they do seem to have completely dropped the idea after Square Root of Evil - unless the enemy is captured in Nightmare, but that seems unlikely.

[darren]

I've not really paid much attention to the early storylines so this is fascinating stuff, guys!

It's always interesting to see the early plans of show fade away.

[mousemeat]

I've not really paid much attention to the early storylines so this is fascinating stuff, guys!

It's always interesting to see the early plans of show fade away.

actually, I find it interesting watching the show evolve...No one in their wildest dreams, did the 'Avengers' have such a long shelf life, especially after it's demise in 1969. 52 years after that fact...

[Frankymole]

I agree. I just finished writing up "Square Root of Evil" and that also has a shadowy boss who only mentioned by other characters, and the episode ends with Steed hoping to catch him when they replace the gang with his own mob that night.
That might have been a vestige of an earlier writers' direction to have an ongoing unknown enemy or it might be another (the last?) example of the ongoing enemy actually being in place, three episodes in a row.

By Jove I think you've got it!! The brief pondering about whether an "arch-enemy" was originally mooted was, I think, somewhere around the "making of" the third episode in the McGinlay book, since that's presented chronologically.

More sinister... Dr Tredding could have been The Big Man, that very arch-enemy!! Think about it... he's never seen again in the series after episode 2, though he is mentioned as being locum for Dr Keel on occasion. What if instead of "doing his rounds", it's merely a cover for running various criminal enterprises?? The cunning of the man - where better to hide than right under Keel and Steed's noses, in the guise of a trusted colleague and friend, where he won't be suspected?

[Frankymole]

Nice little note about/from Astor Sklair who played Sgt Rogers in the first episode:

http://theavengers.tv/forever/pnote-sklair.htm