yes, you've jogged my memory-I seem to remember that scene. There was a "making of" which showed part of the original first scene, whereby bad/clone Emma arrives at the phone box entrance to the prospero project, in the blue jag. There was also another "behind the scenes" shown on E! Entertainment (no i don't watch that channel regularly!) I believe this showed the Father/Golf scene too.
I have the movie script book that was released at the time, and it has many cut scenes. The original prospero opening really should have been kept, as it started the film with a bang (literally!). As the studio wanted more action, it was nonsensical to cut it. But then that is the story of the whole edit. There is also the, to my mind, essential scene when Steed first takes Emma to meet Mother. This has Mother showing scenes of bizarre weather conditions on a screen and thus setting-up the whole weather plot! Mrs Peel says "Time to get your woollens!" I could go on and on. These scenes were not lengthy but contained essential info. to make things coherent.
That's why i think the full cut would be a much better watch. And we could possibly get a really good fan-edit, like those for the Star wars films. Some of these are great. The film will still have all the same flaws but it would surely flow better, and at least make some sense! A film can live or die on the editing and this one is proof of that. Hope we get to see a better edit one day soon. 2018 is the film's 20th Anniversary Warner Brothers!!
the movie.
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Avengerholic
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I think I'm right in saying that Jeremiah Chechik offered to do a directors cut not so very long ago for free, Warner were not in the least bit interested. It's very sad, I think it would fair so much better if seen in it's entirety. I don't believe an uncut version will ever come to light myself, I think that would have happened with the Blu Ray release if it was ever going too.
You are right-the director said in an interview that he did offer to edit it for free, as he wanted his original vision to see the light of day. So, If they wouldn't say yes to that it means they really aren't interested.
My hope is that at some point in the future when there is new management-and there always is new management in film companies-that there may come a point when someone new might be more willing to re-visit it. What may seem like a pointless idea today might seem like an OK idea tomorrow (and a way of making a bit of money on something gathering dust in the vault) such as a "special edition" for example. As I say it is just a hope but stranger things have happened, especally in the film industry...
My hope is that at some point in the future when there is new management-and there always is new management in film companies-that there may come a point when someone new might be more willing to re-visit it. What may seem like a pointless idea today might seem like an OK idea tomorrow (and a way of making a bit of money on something gathering dust in the vault) such as a "special edition" for example. As I say it is just a hope but stranger things have happened, especally in the film industry...
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mousemeat
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don't believe it will ever see the light of day....too bad..Avengerholic wrote:I think I'm right in saying that Jeremiah Chechik offered to do a directors cut not so very long ago for free, Warner were not in the least bit interested. It's very sad, I think it would fair so much better if seen in it's entirety. I don't believe an uncut version will ever come to light myself, I think that would have happened with the Blu Ray release if it was ever going too.
"Lost" episodes of Doctor Who have found their way into the hands of private collectors. This is the case with many rare and thought to be lost films and TV episodes, including Tunnel of fear !. The collectors pride themselves on owning something exclusive. I suggested that someone somewhere must surely have something, such as a full deleted scene, from the preview/full print. Or even a full uncut print. wishful thinking? Yes of course. Maybe they will one day decide to share it. A release might not happen anytime soon. But i am not ready to say it will never be seen...
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frank
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This is a first chance I had to reply about people's desire for a director's or "complete" cut
I just don't ever seeing it happen for one basic reason. it is not worth Warner bros' time to invest. Even if the director did it for free, the company would still have to invest money to produce and press copies of the film
The Avengers 97 movie was a critical and commercial flop. If it was one of those films that developed a following post theatrical release then WB probably would consider a director's cut. However it's not.
The best you can hope for is maybe a fan has deleted scenes and they are generous enough to post them on youtube
Personally I cannot see any missing scenes compensating for the fundamental problems I had with the film. Watching it again recently reminding what those problems are. I found it really akin to a big budget fan film with major stars. You had a film with a good budget and the starting materials for something good, but the wrong people were making it.
You can tell the director and the writer are fans of the tv show. Too much so. Too many scenes and moments that are overly referential and derivative of the series. A number of those moments like the homage to House That Jack Built didn't fit the narrative flow or felt forced.
The show was usually good at incorporating speculative and science fiction elements in a way where the viewer could suspend disbelief fairly easily. I found the film failed in that area big time. The cloning aspect felt clumsy and awkward. There was not much point to it. Like they couldn't come up with any better reason to involve Mrs Peel other than NOT making it an origin story
I just don't ever seeing it happen for one basic reason. it is not worth Warner bros' time to invest. Even if the director did it for free, the company would still have to invest money to produce and press copies of the film
The Avengers 97 movie was a critical and commercial flop. If it was one of those films that developed a following post theatrical release then WB probably would consider a director's cut. However it's not.
The best you can hope for is maybe a fan has deleted scenes and they are generous enough to post them on youtube
Personally I cannot see any missing scenes compensating for the fundamental problems I had with the film. Watching it again recently reminding what those problems are. I found it really akin to a big budget fan film with major stars. You had a film with a good budget and the starting materials for something good, but the wrong people were making it.
You can tell the director and the writer are fans of the tv show. Too much so. Too many scenes and moments that are overly referential and derivative of the series. A number of those moments like the homage to House That Jack Built didn't fit the narrative flow or felt forced.
The show was usually good at incorporating speculative and science fiction elements in a way where the viewer could suspend disbelief fairly easily. I found the film failed in that area big time. The cloning aspect felt clumsy and awkward. There was not much point to it. Like they couldn't come up with any better reason to involve Mrs Peel other than NOT making it an origin story
I agree with the majority of your points. I too stated that a full uncut print would still not solve the flaws in the film-of which there are far too many!
Although the film has not achieved true " so bad it's good " cult status it has garnered for itself a bit of a reputation, which could actually be used in its favour if WB put their mind to it. The movie does tend to top lists (online, magazines etc) for worst film remake of a TV series, which could be a starting point...
I remember a somewhat similar situation with the film "Heaven's Gate", which was also a massive flop on release. All the stories of how it was butchered and of being the biggest money-loser ever etc etc. A restored version did see the light of day eventually due to immense curiosity. Admittedly the Avengers movie has not even come close to gaining the same level of reputation/curiosity that film had, nor some others with similar histories. But a tag-line that hints/plays on "is it that bad?" without actually saying it, could drum up interest. I had NO interest in seeing Heaven's gate or a film such as "Plan 9 from outer space", but was caught up in the curiosity about them due to their "infamous" status. Magazine articles and a little (cheap) publicity on WB's part playing on the same type of thing may whet the appetite for "the OTHER Avengers film nobody wants to see!"
I am probably clutching at straws and a big part of me does think it IS a lost cause to hope for a special edition blu-ray/DVD. But knowing the film industry and of how it manages to get people interested in so much s***, I can't completely write-off such a possibility. I did actually work for WB UK in the '80s (NOT in any creative capacity but in the office) and got to know the sales/Marketing team and of how they worked. I got tons of free promo stuff (how i miss it) and saw preview prints of many movies before they went to the British Board of film classification. I learnt a lot about how the UK censors think, and of how they differed from the US. No surprise-UK more anti-violence, the US more anti-sex. A generalisation but more or less true.
Anyway back to the point! It does, of course, depend on WB being interested and they really haven't been for so long now. What could change their mind in the future is unknown. I'm not a person for gloating but I would love to be able to one day say "Told you so..."! hee hee!
Although the film has not achieved true " so bad it's good " cult status it has garnered for itself a bit of a reputation, which could actually be used in its favour if WB put their mind to it. The movie does tend to top lists (online, magazines etc) for worst film remake of a TV series, which could be a starting point...
I remember a somewhat similar situation with the film "Heaven's Gate", which was also a massive flop on release. All the stories of how it was butchered and of being the biggest money-loser ever etc etc. A restored version did see the light of day eventually due to immense curiosity. Admittedly the Avengers movie has not even come close to gaining the same level of reputation/curiosity that film had, nor some others with similar histories. But a tag-line that hints/plays on "is it that bad?" without actually saying it, could drum up interest. I had NO interest in seeing Heaven's gate or a film such as "Plan 9 from outer space", but was caught up in the curiosity about them due to their "infamous" status. Magazine articles and a little (cheap) publicity on WB's part playing on the same type of thing may whet the appetite for "the OTHER Avengers film nobody wants to see!"
I am probably clutching at straws and a big part of me does think it IS a lost cause to hope for a special edition blu-ray/DVD. But knowing the film industry and of how it manages to get people interested in so much s***, I can't completely write-off such a possibility. I did actually work for WB UK in the '80s (NOT in any creative capacity but in the office) and got to know the sales/Marketing team and of how they worked. I got tons of free promo stuff (how i miss it) and saw preview prints of many movies before they went to the British Board of film classification. I learnt a lot about how the UK censors think, and of how they differed from the US. No surprise-UK more anti-violence, the US more anti-sex. A generalisation but more or less true.
Anyway back to the point! It does, of course, depend on WB being interested and they really haven't been for so long now. What could change their mind in the future is unknown. I'm not a person for gloating but I would love to be able to one day say "Told you so..."! hee hee!
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mousemeat
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I was thinking about mrs.peel's comments on both the avengers film, and the ill fated heaven's gate...And clearly Warner's has no interest at this point, in re releasing the film with a directors cut, with deleted footages, etc...as in WB's eyes, there isn't much interest for the franchise in 2020...and part of that problem is because studio Canal, hasn't push the ' product' etc...however, a film company like Criterion , could license the film from WARNERS, and give it the usual fine treatment..i.e. remastered from original negatives, adding deleted footages, booklet with essays, and more....which brings us to Heaven's Gate...It has gotten slagged unfairly, for decades...and really doesn't deserve that moniker...And contrary to poplaur belief, it wasn't the film that SANK United (UA) Artists...yeah, it lost a boatload of money, but those losses were even out by monies being made by the Bond series, and other successful UA films of the ERA...The studio was sold by it's owner TRANSAMERICA Corp..which was a insurance company, based in San Francisco...They simply wanted to get out of the film business..due to the constant headaches, that dealing with misc actors, directors, etc....so it was sold off to MGM...and for a while, it was known as MGM / UA Entertaiment CO....
Heaven's gate had a checker past..originally way too long, and dragged on..it was severely edited several times and saw limited releases...couple of years ago, Criterion got around and released a version, that restored much of the footages that got axed...and they of course, gave it the usual great treatment..so it's very POSSIBLE the company could strongly consider putting out a director's cut of the AVENGERS....I for one, would welcome it..instead of the crappy version that WB put out years ago on DVD...
Heaven's gate had a checker past..originally way too long, and dragged on..it was severely edited several times and saw limited releases...couple of years ago, Criterion got around and released a version, that restored much of the footages that got axed...and they of course, gave it the usual great treatment..so it's very POSSIBLE the company could strongly consider putting out a director's cut of the AVENGERS....I for one, would welcome it..instead of the crappy version that WB put out years ago on DVD...
